|It is not the purpose of this seminar series to present the scientific evidence for or against creation or evolution. Both are faith based systems which interpret the same evidence in the light of their preconceived, foundational systems (sometimes called their "world- view").
Our purpose is to cast doubt on the evolutionary system based mostly on the logic of the evolutionary system of interpreting the evidence. We leave the science to the scientists. However, we hope our comments will whet your appetite to the point that you will investigate the facts for yourself. To that end we will provide the names of books, videos and websites which will help you in your search.
The Creation/Evolution Controversy
When Did Dinosaurs Really Live?
By Ken Williams
Copyright (c) 2010 - All Rights Reserved
Ask any kindergartner what animal became extinct some 65 million years before humans appeared on the earth, and you will get, without hesitation, a shout of, "dinosaurs!" Yet, there is considerable evidence to prove that dinosaurs and humans existed together on the earth. Why is it that some scientists have tried to hide that evidence?
Evolutionsts have produced a chart showing the divisions of geological time, showing the supposed development of plant and animal life. It is based on the presupposition that everything happened naturally by small mutations, and that nothing supernatural could have happened. They have now drawn out the developmental period to over 15 bllion years in order to give enough time for the evolutionary processes to have taken place. They have divided this time period into various ages (and sub-ages). Those ages include: Archaeozoic, Proterozoic, Palaeozoic, Mesozoic and Cenozoic. Dinosaurs are placed in the Mesozoic Age, long before the development of mammals and finally humans. If it could be proven that dinosaurs and humans existed simultaneously on this planet, the entire evolutionary theory would crumble into the laughable archives of ludicrous hoaxes.
So, what is the evidence available to both evolutionists and creationists? From geology we have fossils of dinosaur footprints, dung, bones, eggs (both hatched and unhatched); and in the last few years in Alaska, dinosaur bones encased in ice cmplete with live red blood cells and pliable soft tissue. From archeology we have ancient manuscripts, petroglyphs, engravings and figurines. From history we have writings of actual events and writings which record legends.
Both the creationist and the evolutonist look at exactly the same evidence, but come to differing conclusions based upon their foundational biases or assumptions. The creationists looks at the evidence and says it points drectly to a creator. The evolutionist says, "there is no God and can be no God, therefore nothing supernatural can be a part of the origins of the universe, earth and life." The evolutionist says that given enough time all of this developed on its own with no outside assistance, even though some of the processes required violate known scientific laws and would require something supernatural no matter how much time was given. Most creation scientists were at one time evolutionists, but changed their positions when they came to the conclusion that given an unlimited amount of time evolution could not have occurred on its own.
EVIDENCE OF DINOSAURS IN GEOLOGY
Let's begin with the geologic table. It is a diagram which shows the various rock strata divided among the various evolutionary ages (some say as far back as 15 billion years). Would it surprise you to learn that you cannot go anywhere in the world and view rock strata as it is show on those tables? Most places you will find only a few rock layers. But more importantly, they are not necessily in the same order as shown on the charts, and not in the same order from one place to another. The charts are just an average used to prove the evolutionary theory. Additionally, would it surprise you to know that vertebrates make up only .0125% of the fossils discovered and that mammals make up only a tiny percentage of that? Even more amazing is that dinosaur fossils are found in several rock layers, and not all of them are in supposedly adjacent layers, nor in the strata required for the age in which they were supposed to have lived. Did you know that there are petrified trees that srart in one rock layer and go through three, four, five or six adjoining layers that were supposed to have been laid down millions of years apart? That is an impossibility!
How did we get dinosaur fossils (or any kind of fossils, for that matter)? If an animal dies a natural death in a forest, other animals and birds will likely eat its flesh, and the carcass with disintegrate over time. There will be no fossil. Fossils are formed when an animal is buried alive in mud which then comes under extreme pressure and forms quickly into rock. We have petrified and fossilized dinosaur footprints, bones, dung and eggs. We have many dinosar footprints (both individual dinosaurs and entire herds) and in most cases they appear to have been running when they made the prints in the mud.
Back in the 1950's a Texas high school science teacher and his son spotted what they thought were dinosaur tracks in the rock at the bottom of a creek near their home. University scienists were called in. They dug into the creek bank following the tracks; and to their amazement, and horror, a number of yards back under the bank the dinosaur tracks were crossed by perfectly formed footprints of three humans. Evolutionists agreed that the footprints looked exactly like human footprints, and fit no other known animal. But they said the footprints could not be human because human beings and dinosaurs did not live at the same time. Their bias would not allow them even to consider the possibility. For, if humans and dinosaurs existed together on the earth, that would doom the evolutionary theory. It would leave the door open for the possibility of a Creator.
An even more dramatic development occurred in 1997. Dinosaur remains were found encased in ice in Alaska. To the scientists' extreme excitement and also apprehension, when they put the bones under the microscope, they discovered two things. They discovered live red blood cells in the bone and they discovered, attached to the bone, soft tissue which was described as still transparent and pliable (elastic). The comment was written that the bones appeared to be no more than 200 to 300 years old. But then they added that it was miraculous that it could have been preserved in that state for 68 million years. Their explanation is that some "mysterious process which we know nothing about must have peserved these for all those millions of years." And this comes from people who actually have earned college degrees, and who reject even the possibility of the supernatural. Again, the evolutionists saw the evidence, but they could not accept what they saw because it did not fit their evolutionary model. Some scientists assert that even encased in ice, those red cells could not possibly have survived more than a few thousand years if that long.
In Dr. Philp Kitcher's book titled Abusing Science: The Case Against Creationism (1982, page 121), he claimed that solid evidence for the coexistence of dinosaurs and humans would "Shake the foundations of the evolutionary theory, because, of course, the dinosaurs are supposed to have been long extinct by the tme the hominids (humans) arrived on the scene." The fact is that there is lots of evidence that humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time, and that dinosaurs were still living in many parts of the world as recently as seven or eight hundred years ago.
Did you hear the report in January 2005 of the fossilized remains of a mammal which were discovered? The reason you haven't heard about it is because in the stomach of the fossil was a small fossilzed dinosaur. According to evolution, mammals did not exist in the time of dinosaurs. What the find means, is that the fossilized mammal had just finished eating the dinosaur when it was suddenly and catastrophically buried in mud, which quickly turned to rock, preserving the event forever. The report was given in the January 13, 2005 issue of Nature.
Have you read of the discovery of some T-Rex bones in the Upper Midwest, March 24th, of 2005? Scientists discovered, to their chagrin, soft tissue, blood vessels and blood cells. These were not found in ice, but in rock. Any molecular biologist will tell you that soft tissue, blood vessels and blood cells will not stick around for more than 65 million years. Have you heard about this discovery? Likely not. Why not? Because it violates the Theory of Evolution! You see, protection of the sacred theory is far more important than the facts.
EVIDENCE OF DINOSAURS IN ACHEOLOGY
Many ancient civilizations have drawings, engravings and figurines of various kinds of dinosaurs. In ancient Babylon there were dinosaur carvings on the city gates and on their temples. If they had never seen dinosaurs, how did they know what they looked like? On the rock walls of the Grand Canyon there are petroglyphs of dinoaurs drawn by Indians hundreds of years ago. How did they know what they looked like? At the Cliff Dwellers Pueblos there are drawings of dinosaurs drawn hundreds of year ago. In Cambodia engravings of dinosaurs were found next to real animals from our time. They have been dated to about 1050 AD. How did they know what they looked like? In Peru there are dinosaurs on grave stones, temples and pottery. In one case there are two dinosaurs attacking a person. These dinos date to between 500 and 1200 AD. In the Neanderthal caves in the south of France there are drawings on the cave walls including dinosaurs. In one case there is a large picture of a dinosaur and a bear fighting each other.
Dr. Javier Cabrera Darquea, of the Inca National University, was given a gift by a Peruvian farmer. The gift was some egg shaped stones with carvings on them. They were from the Inca culture of the 1400's AD. He set out to find more in the area. Before it was over, he found more than 11,000 of them. Most intresting about the stones is that a very large percentage of them had carvings of various types of dinosaurs on them. Some of them had both dinosaurs and people on them. Certainly these Indians in the Andes Mountains of Peru and Ecuador would not have known what dinosaurs looked like unless they had seen them first hand.
To make this even more interesting, some of the dinosaurs pictured on the stones were labeled by evolutionists as nothing but art from the figment of their imaginations, because no dinosaur existed that looked like some of the pictures. That was their way of dismissing the dinoaurs which were accurately pictured. But in 1992, in Geology Mazazine, the Inca pictured dinosaurs were discovered in various parts of the world. Two more of them were found in September of 2010 in the Utah desert. So, our modern research is just now catching up with what the Inca Indians knew from observaton in the 1400's.
Let's move next to Mexico. In the Acambaro area of Mexico there is a mountain called El Toro. In the foothills of that mountain, a man was riding along on his horse, and noticed a small ceramic figurine of a dinosaur. Since then hundreds upon hundreds of these ceramic figurines of dinosaurs have been found. They are about the size of a person's hand. Some were entire dinosaurs. Others had been broken. Archeologists sent some of the broken pieces off to two dating laboratories. They used two different dating methods, both of which dated them between 1800 and 2000 BC. Many months later the laboratories were advised that the ceramic pieces were from ceramic dinosaurs. Immediately the laboratories withdrew their dating, and said they could not date the materials. The reason is obvious: the evidence did not fit the "sacred theory."
Our next stop is Blanding, Utah, and the Natural Bridges National Monument. In this area there are three natural sandstone bridges. On these bridges, and around the area, there are many petroglyphs (pictures drawn by early Indians on the rocks). Those pictures include numerous dinosaurs, flying reptiles and dinosaur-like creatures. Surely these Indians must have seen these animals, or they would have had no way of drawing them.
Fran Barnes, evolutionist and recognized authority on rock art of the American Southwest, in Barnes and Pendleton, Canyon Country Prehistoric Indians - Their Culture, Ruins, Artifacts, and Rock Art, Wasatch Publishers, Salt Lake City, Utah, 1995, wrote, "There is a petroglyph in Natural Bridges National Monument that bears a striking resemblance to a dinosaur." As an evolutionist, Barnes simply could not admit that the Indians had drawn a dinosaur. For if they had drawn a dinosaur that woud have meant that they had seen at least one. And if they had seen even one dinosaur at any time during their lifetime, that would invalidate her loyalty to the evolutionary theory.
Dr. Samuel Hubbard, Honorary Curator of Archeology at the Museum of Natural History in Oakland California led an archeological expedition in the Grand Canyon area. His purpose was to prove that the American Indians had been on the North American continent longer than anyone had thought. He did just exctly that. He discovered their pottery, their tools, their weapons, etc. But he also discovered their cave art. Among the pictures they drew were dinosaurs. How did they know what they looked like if they had never seen dinosaurs? In the book Strange Prehistoric Animals and Their History, L.C. Page & Co., Boston, 1954, pp. 155ff, he writes, "Taken all in all, the proportions are good. The huge reptile is depicted in the attitude in which man would be most likey to see it - rearing on its hind legs, balancing with the long tail, either feeding or in fighting position, possibly defending itself against a party of men."
In Discovering Relating to Prehistoric Man by the Doheny Scientific Expedition, Oakland, California Museum of Natural History, 1925, pp 5, 7, Dr. Hubbard writes, "The fact that some prehistoric man made a pictograph of a dinosaur on the walls of this canyon upsets completely all of our theories regarding the antiquity of man... The fact that the animal is upright and balancing on its tail would seem to indicate that the prehisoric artist must have seen it alive." Incidentally, nearby the expedition also found dinosaur tracks preserved in a stratum identified as Triassic - supposedly more than 165 million years old. We might also note that the expedition found drawings of sheep, oxen, humans and other things. All of those drawing were also accurate.
In the floor of the Carlisle Cathedral in England you can find the tomb of Richard Bell who died in 1496, about 350 years before the word "dinosaur" was invented. The tomb is in marble, with a bronze ring around it. Carved into that ring are various animals like an eel, a fox, a cat and a dog, along with some dinosaurs. If the person or persons who did the carvings had never seen dinosaurs, how could they have accurately depicted them?
In Peru, we have burial cloths and pottery with pictures of dinosaurs on them that date back to about 700 AD. What about the Roman murals from the second century AD that depict two long-necked dinosaurs? Or how about the Mesopotamian cylinder seal, found in 1969, which contains dinosaurs just like what we call the Apatosaurus? But let's go on to the ancient Egyptian tablets attributed to the first Pharaoh of the United Egypt. They have dinosaurs carved into them. This is just the tip of the iceberg, so to speak; but we must move on.
EVIDENCE OF DINOSAURS IN WRITTEN HISTORY
There is a story out of ancient Europe in which a dinosaur invaded a meeting house several times, killing leaders and running off. Finally one of the warriors devised a trap to lure the dino back into the house where there is a lengthy description of how he so wounded the beast that it ran away and was never seen again. The method he is described as using, incidentally, was the same method recorded in descriptions of the killing of dinosaurs by the ancient Babylonians.
During the Middle Ages there are many written descriptions of what obviously were dinosaurs. Some of these reports tell of these great animals coming in and destroying gardens and stealing sheep. There are some such spotty reports in Europe up to as near as 600 years ago.
According to evolutionists, man was separated from flying reptiles (dinosaurs) such as Teradactals and Teradons by at least 65 million years. Yet there are historical references to such creatures in written history. Herodotus (a Greek historian from the fifth century BC, wrote, "There is a place in Arabia...to which I went, on hearing of some winged serpents, in such quantities as it would be impossible to describe. The form of the serpent is like that of a water snake; but he has wings without feathers, and as like as possible to the wings of a bat" (1980 reprint, Historiae, trans. Henry Clay, 2:75-76). Herodotus knew of flying reptiles, and recognized that these creatures were not birds, mammals, or insects - but reptiles with wings.
Herodotus is not the only reference in history to dinosaurs and flying reptiles. The Jewish historian Flavius Josepohus wrote about Moses and his army having a difficult time passing through the Arabian Desert because of the presence of flying serpents. "When the ground was difficult to be passed over, because of the multitude of serpents (which it produces in vast numbers...some of which ascend out of the ground unseen, and also fly in the air, and do come upon men at unawares, and do them mischief)... [Moses] made baskets like unto arks, of sedge, and filled them with ibes (a tyipe of bird), and carried them along with them; which animal is the greatest enemy to serpents imaginable, for they (the serpents) fly from them when they come near them; and as they fly they are caught and devoured by them (by the ibes)" (n.d., Antiquities of the Jews, 2:10:2, bold letters added).
The serpents described by Herodotus (the Greek historian) and Josephus (the Jewish historian), who lived in separate centuries BC, were likely Dimophodons.
Marco Polo, who lived in China for 17 years, reported in approximately 1271 AD that the Chinese emperor raised dragons (the word used for dinosaurs before the word "dinosaur" was invented in 1841) to pull chariots in parades. We know from history that in 1611, the Chinese emperor initiated the post of a "Royal Dragon Feeder." There is also the record of Chinese families raising dragons to use their blood for medicines and highly prizing their eggs.
EVIDENCE OF DINOSAURS IN THE BIBLE
Are there any mentions of dinosaurs in the Bible? Yes there are - quite a few mentions, as a matter of fact. The first thing we have to realize is that the word "dinosaur" is a relatively modern word in terms of the history of language. Sir Richard Owen found some of the earliest dinosaur fossils in England in 1822. Nineteen years later, in 1841, he coined (or invented) the word "dinosaur," meaning "Terrible Lizard." The King James Version of the Bible was translated into English in 1611, 230 years before the word "dinosaur" was invented. Therefore you will not find the word "dinosaur" in the English Bible. There are three different Hebrew words used in the Old Testament to identify dinosaurs.
First, let's look at the most obvious. It is the word "dragon" (tanniyn in Hebrew). This word is used 22 times in the Old Testament. It means: a land or sea monster. But the root of tanniyn (tan) means to longate, huge, hideous. Five times in the Old Testament the word "dragon/dinosaur" - "tanniyn" is used as a real living animal along with other existing animals - once in the Psalms, once in Job and three times in Isaiah. Four times it is used to refer to a sea monster - twice in the Psalms and twice in Isaiah. Jeremiah compared Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon to a dinosaur in describing the way the Babylonian King devoured Jerusalem. Ezekiel compared Egypt's Pharaoh to a dinosaur. Four passages in the Psalms, Jeremiah and Malachi tell us that dinosaurs lived in dens, desolate places and in the wilderness. The Prophet Micah said dinosaurs make a noise that sounds like wailing. Jeremiah compared donkeys to dinosaurs by the manner in which the dinosaurs sniffed the wind and ate grass.
The second word we want to look at is "leviathan." The Hebrew word for"leviathan" is "leviathan." The King James translators did not know what to do with this word, so they created a new English word out of the Hebrew word. It means a "sea monster." This word is used five times in the Old Testament, and in Job 40:1 there is somewhat of a description of this sea monster.
The final word is "behemoth," found in Job chapter 40. This also is a transliteration from Hebrew. The translators simply spelled out the Hebrew word in the English alphabet, without translating the word. There is also a description of this animal in this passage:
1. He eats grass as an ox (verse 15).
2. He has powrful loins and muscles in his belly (verse 16).
3. His tail is like a cedar tree (reference to the tall cedars of Lebanon) (verse 17).
4. The sinews of his thighs are tightly knit together (verse 17).
5. His vertebrae are like tubes of brass (verse 18).
6. His ribs are like iron bars (verse 18).
7. He is ferocious (verse 19).
8. His food is both vegetarian and other animals (verse 20).
9. No one can catch him off guard, or tame him (verse 24).
Do we have any animals today that have a tail which can be described as a cedar tree - a big base, a very long central truck that narrows to a point and when swung around can cause great damage? This is obviously a descsription of a dinosaur.
If the Bible writers had never seen dinosaurs, how would they know about them to write about them? If the people who read or heard their writings had never seen dinosaurs, how could they have understood what the writers were saying, or how would they make the comparison the writers were trying to illustrate?
From Geology, the rocks cry out that dinosaurs and humans existed together on the earth. From Archeology, the pottery, cave art, petroglyphs and more prove that ancint mankind had seen living dinosaurs. From written hisory it is quite clear that dinosaurs and humans co-existed on the earth. And it is obvious that dinosaurs existed during virtually all of the Old Testament times, being mentioned from Job (the oldest book of the Bible) though Malachi (written just 200 years before the time of Jesus).
An evolutionist, Dr. Samuel Hubbard of the Museum of Natural History in Oakland, California, wrote, "The fact that some prehistoric man made a pictograph of a dinosaur on the walls of this canyon upsets completely all of our theories regarding the antiquity of man... The fact that the animal is upright and balancing on its tail would seem to indicate that the prehistoric artist must have seen it alive." However, having said that, Dr. Hubbad was still not able to admit that dinosaurs and humans lived on this planet at the same time. To do so would have been an admission that the entire Theory of Evolution is wrong and should be scrapped.
1. There is indisputable evdence that man and dinosaurs existed together on the earth for a significant period of time.
2. Don't expect evlutionists to accept the overwhelming evidence, because their sacred theory is more important than science.
3. The evidence of dinosaur and human coexistence makes the Theory of Evolution indefensible.
Sir Julian Huxley, the most outspoken proponent of evolution during the 20th Century, was interviewed on PBS just a few months before his death. He was asked why he had dedicated his life to promoting evolution, and why so many scientists jumped at evolution as an explanation for the origin of the species. You would expect a long, involved, scientific answer from such a man. His answer was, "I suppose the reason that we leapt at the 'origins' is that the idea of God interfered with our sexual morays." This great man of science admitted that evolution as little to do with science and everything to do with God. In his statement, he basically said that if there is a God, then He has the right to tell us how to live. I almost feel like I have to add a, "duh," to that statement. Huxley's rush to promote evolution was because of his dislike for the idea that there might be a God.
Richard Lewontin ("Billions and Billions of Demons," The New York Review, January 9, 1997, page 31, Article is a review of Carl Sagan's book, Billions and Billions, Random Huse, New York 1997) writes, "Our willingness to accept scientific claims against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity... We are forced to our adherence to materialism...no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door."
Let's disect those statements:
1. He accepts evolution's claims "against common sense."
2. He accepts evolution "in spite of its patent absurdity."
3. He accepts evolution "no matter how counter-intuitive" it is.
4. He accepts evolution "no matter how mystifying" it is.
5. He concludes: "We cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door."
Have you ever read a more clear definition of "blind faith?"
Richard Dawkins of the University of Oxford is one of the most influential people in the world in terms of what is taught to our children as science. Many say that Dawkins has taken up the mantle of Huxley. In his book, The God Delusion, 2006, Houghton Mifflin, page 36, Dawkins writes, "I am attacking God, all gods, anything and everything supernatural, wherever and whenever they have been or will be invented." Dawkins admits that his extraordinary efforts to promote evolution have little to do with science and everything to do with his own personal war against God.
Links for more information:
ESSAYS ON THE CREATION/EVOLUTION
By Ken Williams
Essay #1: Dinosaurs - When Did they Really Live?
Essay #2: Have You Ever Thought of This?
Essay #3: Is the Bible Scientifically Accurate?
Essay #4: Neanderthal Man Screams, "Creation!"
Essay #5: Mount Saint Helens: Erupting Away Millions of Years
Essay #6: Millions of Years; or Noah's Flood?
Essay #7: "It Looks Like...But it Can't Be"
Essay #8: Evolution: The Scientific Basis for Racism
Essay #9: The Motivation Behind the Theory of Evolution
Essay #10: Did Man come from Apes...or...Did God Make Man?
Essay #11: More About Dinosaurs
Essay #12: The Effects of Evolution on American Society and Culture
Essay #13: Giants on the Earth
And 43 Vignettes
Also includes picture, charts, illustrations and graphs
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